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Can I keep my full-time job while I pursue a PhD in Psychology, and if so, for how long?

I have read this question posed a lot for math and science doctoral degree , but my question pertains to pursuing a social sciences doctoral degree . I'm currently working as a Management Analyst in local government. I've decided to pursue a PhD in Psychology at a nearby university. Being accepted is a big "if", but if I were accepted, my goal would be to retain my position in government as long as possible and find ways to connect my research to social behaviors pertaining to civic engagement and public health. I'm also in my early 30s, which means I'll be doing this during the decade when most people are settling into their careers. The eventual goal is to pivot to academia and pursue a career in lecturing and research.

My hope is that the overlap would ease the tension between holding down a relatively demanding, full-time job and would benefit my research. With that said, I'm wondering if I need a reality check here. Has anyone else endeavored anything like this? How difficult is it to balance both?

• research-process
• work-life-balance

• 15 A PhD is (usually) the equivalent of a full time job (the majority of PhD students I know work at least 40 hours a week). Most PhDs are relatively demanding. Only you can decide if you have the time and energy to keep two relatively demanding full time jobs on the go. –  astronat supports the strike Commented May 19, 2020 at 17:00
• 2 Is your employer willing to somehow support your education and research goals? –  Anyon Commented May 19, 2020 at 17:23
• 4 I have heard of those who go to work (full time) when all that remains for their Ph.D. is the writing of the thesis. They may take many years to finish the writing, or even never finish. –  GEdgar Commented May 19, 2020 at 17:29
• 2 A better use of your time is to use your paying job to save up a nest egg to supplement a PhD stipend. Maybe knock out some classes if you can (state and local employees often get tuition benefits at state universities) –  Azor Ahai -him- Commented May 19, 2020 at 17:35
• 2 @PhilipSchiff " The eventual goal is to pivot to academia, and pursue a career in lecturing and research " OP is considering this with a goal in mind of an academic career for which a PhD is required. –  Bryan Krause ♦ Commented May 20, 2020 at 23:33

5 Answers 5

I don't want to repeat the points made in other good answers.

If you want some work-life-balance , keeping the full-time job and doing a PhD at the same time is impossible. In most cases, having a consistent work-life-balance while doing a PhD alone is very hard.

• 4 Nice. But even with no overlap it ain't always easy. –  Buffy Commented May 19, 2020 at 22:21
• 4 @Buffy totally agree. I am trying to do it now with only a full-time job and fail spectacularly. –  Anton Menshov Commented May 19, 2020 at 22:49
• 2 If OP wants to defend a thesis that is good enough to support a career in academia, the center becomes "five-legged unicorn-rare". –  henning no longer feeds AI Commented May 23, 2020 at 8:51

You can consider doing a part-time PhD that can be completed any time between 4 and 7 years (actual times may vary). This is an option provided for people with external responsibilities, such as having a full-time job. It is certainly feasible, but it includes the supervisor and the department agreeing. Also, the situation around fees and funding needs to be clarified, as the department may hesitate to provide funding to a part-time student with a full-time job and allocate it instead to a full-time PhD student with no other means. You might still be able to secure paid work (teaching or marking), a stipend/ bursary or for fees to be waived or covered by something else. This, of course is country and department specific. Technically, combining a full-time job and a part-time PhD is doable.

That said, even a part-time PhD requires a significant time commitment provided continuously, or at least in specific productive periods doing the PhD. In brief, research is a strange beast that cares little for your personal circumstances and cannot be put easily in boxes or timetables. It requires clarity of thought, calmness, time (often time to waste!) and personal commitment, which the conditions might not provide despite your best efforts. Even if the goal is not an academic career but simply completing a PhD, the demands are still high and you need to consider how to balance work, further responsibilities (social life, family, caring etc) and possible changes in the future (e.g. moving away, starting a family). I dare compare it to someone like a fencing or chess champion: a high level athlete, with all the dedication that demands, who cannot support oneself from that activity and needs to put as much time and effort in a full-time job. It is not a leisure hobby or a past-time activity. I do not know how you imagine research to be, and everyone has a different story according to their field, personality and circumstances. The more stories you hear, the better.

The advice I give to anyone is to think very carefully about the reasons for starting a PhD. Such a commitment is not undertaken because "there is nothing else to do", "I want to be a student again/more", "all my friends have one" or "I want to be a Doctor". It is a very demanding, long endeavour, unlike most experiences and requires a clear, persistent and strong personal desire and motive. I am not trying to dissuade or indirectly criticise you, and have no reason to doubt your composure, personality or abilities. I am only emphasising the need for careful thought, because quite early on, and after the first experience, you will need to decide what level of quality you will be able/ willing to reach in your work. The level of quality greatly depends on what I discussed earlier, so it becomes a virtuous or vicious cycle. At the end of the day, nobody knows your conditions better than yourself and you are the ultimate judge on how to combine the two.

• 2 4-7 years part-time would make sense in a system where a PhD is usually completed in 2-3 years. In the US, a full-time PhD in psychology would be expected to take 5 years. (not sure where OP is) –  Bryan Krause ♦ Commented May 20, 2020 at 23:10
• I am not familiar with a country where the expected time for PhD completion is 2 years. Most commonly it is 3 (also the time of a full-time studentship), with writing up granting an extra year. A good approximation for a part-time PhD is double the time of a full-time PhD, and in that context 4 means a brief extension over the standard full-time period. –  user117109 Commented May 20, 2020 at 23:16
• 1 Ok; in the US it would definitely not be 3 years, though, so if OP is in the US they would need to substantially adjust their expectations. –  Bryan Krause ♦ Commented May 20, 2020 at 23:32

As you have already learned, it is very difficult. Normally a doctoral program (in the US, where I assume you are) is a full time "job", but for most of the students that includes a fair amount of work as a TA to avoid tuition charges and provide a meager living. If you already have an established lifestyle and a family to support then giving up your job for this probably isn't feasible.

I'm assuming the US, here. Normally you start a doctoral program with coursework leading to comprehensive qualifying exams, followed by research leading to a dissertation. Normally universities impose a time limit on your studies, perhaps seven or so years. But things vary. If you already have a psychology masters it could be a bit different. Possibly some other masters would make a difference. Most students will have an undergraduate degree in psychology or a closely related field so the coursework is somewhat advanced. If you don't have that, it might be harder, both to get into a program and to fill in any gaps in your background.

But supposing that tuition is not a problem for you and your current job pays you well, then it might be possible under, perhaps, a modified study plan provided that you don't need to work as a TA (caveat below). Since you say it is a nearby university, you should find a way to communicate with them. In person is best, but hard now with the pandemic. Ask whether it is possible to start out with a lighter than normal course load so as to see how you can manage it. You have to get prepared for comps and you have to take care about any time constraints.

Thus, it might be possible to manage it up to the point where you start serious dissertation research. After that it may be less feasible to do both, but you will also have a better sends then of the tradeoffs and sacrifices you need to make.

But the best advice would come from the psychology faculty of the institution you would like to study at. They will point out any constraints and possible pitfalls.

Note, however, that for some programs, serving as a TA is a requirement for the degree, it being considered an important aspect of the education. In such a program you would almost certainly have something like two full time jobs.

As other commentators have stated, a full-time PhD candidate is usually expected to study full-time hours, which is nominally 36-40 hours a week, but it often turns out to be longer. Most universities impose rules on their PhD candidates that require approval from the Department for the candidate to take an outside job for more than some minimum number of hours per week. For example, when I did my PhD candidature, the rules said that I needed Department approval if I wanted to work more than 10 hours per week in an outside job. If I had asked to work a full-time job during my candidature, I am quite certain they would not have approved it.

As with all university administration matters, you will need to look up the rules at your particular institution. Your university will have a set of written rules for the PhD candidature, and that will tell you if there is any formal restriction on outside work during the candidature. Ordinarily, if a candidate is working a full-time job, they will be expected to drop their candidature back to a part-time load. This is desirable both for the university and for the sanity of the candidate.

I was in a somewhat similar situation, getting accepted to a U.S. PhD-program in the social sciences while being a senior analyst at a local government. I arranged for a reduced schedule for the first few years while doing coursework, taking exams, and ultimately the orals. It worked reasonably well, but it came with a cost both in terms of my "old" job where I was less available, and also as far as being less focused on my new program, forming networks, being part of group research projects, etc.

After my orals, I quickly moved back to full time, which made it at least a challenge to hit a good and persistent research stride. It took longer to finish, I was more scattered in most endeavors--including my young and growing family, and certainly, while my professional and academic interests overlapped substantially, I didn't have the same research output as some of my more academically focused peers had.

Which brings me to my final point about your motivation. I kept my leg in the professional world and didn't jump fully into the academic one, and am now back in a regional agency, which suits me quite well, but I often wonder how different my academic experience would have been if I had jumped in 100 percent and had gone the more traditional route. You say you want to pivot to academia--that seems to me to be an indication that you may start out by keeping your job, but be prepared to choose if things get tricky, and get a more focused academic experience.

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Choosing Between a PhD and PsyD: Some Factors to Consider

Your degree choice will determine your training, as well as your career options..

Posted March 2, 2016 | Reviewed by Ekua Hagan

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Like many people who are interested in psychology, you may be considering a career involving clinical psychology. This is a good choice because clinical psychology covers a broad range of interest areas—children, adults, families, sports, forensics and many more.

In addition, there are many paths you can take toward a degree involving clinical psychology. You can earn a master’s or doctoral degree and you can receive training in clinical psychology, counseling psychology, social work, sports psychology, or even medicine as a psychiatrist. Finally, your career path can lead to a job involving research, treatment (including therapy ), teaching, or a combination of these areas.

Today, I (Jonathan) want to focus on a question I hear a lot from students and others—should you get a PhD or PsyD? (I will hold off on other clinical psychology question, such as getting a Master’s or Doctoral degree for now.) This question is very important because it will impact how you will get trained in graduate school and the career options you will have once you earn your advanced degree. There are a number of websites that describe the distinction between a PhD and PsyD.

For brevity, let’s just be clear that:

• A PhD is a Doctor of Philosophy , whereas a PsyD is a Doctor of Psychology.
• PhD students are generally trained following the scientist-practitioner model that puts greater emphasis on research than PsyD students, while PsyD students are generally trained with greater emphasis on clinical work than PhD students.
• A PhD degree is earned in 5-7 years, while a PsyD degree is earned in 4-6 years, keeping in mind that this includes 1 internship year.

Now that I presented the distinction, let’s get right to it—what are the critical factors to consider when deciding whether to be trained as a PhD or a PsyD? In presenting these factors, I stuck to the general premise that the individual making this decision could go to either a PhD or Psych program. Of course, the ability to choose a PhD or a PsyD program may not be available to all students, because they do not meet the criteria of a particular program. These criteria may include grades, GRE scores, or life experiences. In addition, it is very important to keep in mind that, as a rule, the number of students selected for graduate school is quite small for a PhD program (typically 10 or fewer) compared to a PsyD program (which can reach as high as 100).

Let's get back to the factors important for making a PhD-PsyD decision. The first factor you need to consider is whether you will be funded during your years in graduate school.

It is typically the case that students in a PhD program receive some type of funding. This includes tuition, a stipend (a fixed sum of money paid for being a Teaching or Research Assistant), or in many cases, both types of aid. This can add up to literally tens of thousands of dollars each year in financial assistance. You will not be rolling in dough, but the fact that you will not have to pay tuition alone is a big deal because it will significantly reduce any debt you might incur in graduate school. This can turn out to be very important in the sense that the amount of money you will earn as a PhD clinical psychologist may not be as high as you imagined. (Check out careersinpsych.com to see salary info.)

PsyD programs, in general, are unable to provide the same type of support as a PhD program. Part of this is tied to the fact that PhD students serve as Teaching Assistants or Research Assistants, but the same is generally not true of PsyD students at a particular school. In addition, because PhD programs have far fewer graduate students than PsyD programs, schools are able to afford to support PhD students.

I feel it is important to bring up an issue that takes into account the factor of funding—the length time you will be in graduate school. As stated above, the time in graduate school is typically shorter for a PsyD student than a PhD student. In a practical sense, this means that a PsyD student is able to get out and earn a real salary (on average) a year before a PhD student.

Now, this is where things get a bit interesting. Say you get out of school and earn about $60,000 with your PsyD. Of course, this is way more than the stipend at any PhD program; the stipend might be close to $20,000. However, the $60,000 you earn in your year out of graduate school will be needed to start paying back what could be at least $100,000 in tuition costs. To find out tuition costs for any APA accredited PhD or PsyD program, go to their website and look for the link that says “Student Admissions, Outcomes and Other Data.” I think you will be very surprised to see the tuition costs at both PhD and PsyD programs. As stated earlier, a PhD student will typically not have any tuition debt hanging over their head. Thus the $40,000 extra in salary for the PsyD student in the year they are working compared to the stipend of a PhD student is offset by the tuition debt the PsyD student must repay.

The second factor to think about when deciding to apply to a PhD or PsyD program involves APA accreditation, for both graduate school and internship. APA states that, “Although graduating from an accredited program does not guarantee jobs or licensure for individuals, it may facilitate such achievement. It reflects the quality by which an educational institution or a program conducts its business. It speaks to a sense of public trust, as well as to professional quality.” Based on this statement, it would be wise to search out APA-accredited programs.

With regard to internships (that every PhD and PsyD student must complete), APA also notes that, “Students who take unaccredited internships are ineligible for positions with the Department of Veterans Affairs, the single largest employer of psychologists. They are also barred from civilian positions with the military. In addition, a handful of states require aspiring psychologists to have had an APA-accredited internship to be licensed, and many others require them to show that they completed the equivalent of an APA-accredited internship.” Once again, there are real advantages to your ultimate employment plans by completing an APA-accredited internship.

One nice thing about this second factor is that you have the ability to find out the percentage of students who received an APA accredited internship vs. non-APA non-accredited internship for any APA accredited PhD or PsyD program. Go to the program’s website and again look for the link that says “Student Admissions, Outcomes and Other Data.” If a school does not list this information, it is not APA-accredited and should be viewed with caution.

The third factor to consider is what career path you would like to follow. On the one hand, if you want to conduct research both in graduate school and beyond, you should probably go for a PhD. On the other hand, if your career goals lean toward more practical work (e.g., being a therapist) with no real intention of conducting research in graduate school or upon graduation, you should probably get a PsyD. There is an important caveat to this distinction, however. You might be a person who wants to conduct research in a particular area (e.g., ADHD ) because you feel the research experience will help you understand a particular mental health issue. Moreover, you might hope to graduate and get a job working with individuals who reflect that research area, but you have no plans to continue your research work. In this case, a PhD is probably for you.

In presenting these important factors to think about if you are choosing to be a PhD or PsyD, we of course understand that each individual has unique circumstances that must be taken in account. Still, we hope that presenting these factors gives you some food for thought as you consider your ultimate career path in clinical Psychology.

Please note that the comments of Dr. Golding, Dr. Lippert, and the others who post on this blog express their own opinion and not that of the University of Kentucky.

Jonathan Golding, Ph.D. , is a professor of psychology at the University of Kentucky. Anne Lippert, Ph.D. , is a post-doctoral fellow at the University of Kentucky.

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Clinical Psychology PhD

Ph.d. in clinical psychology.

Welcome to the doctoral program in Clinical Psychology Program at Teachers College, Columbia University. The Clinical Psychology Program was founded in 1947-1948. It was APA-accredited in the first group of programs that were reviewed for accreditation in 1948 and that status has been uninterrupted. Our most recent site visit from the APA occurred in 2021, and we have been accredited until June 2031.

Our program operates according to a scientist-practitioner model. We are, thus, dedicated to training students to generate empirically-based knowledge in clinical psychology and to perform clinical work that is constantly informed by traditional and emerging scholarship in the field. We expect our students to learn to expertly produce, analyze, and discuss scientific material. We also expect our students to become proficient at providing clinical services to a diverse population. And, most importantly, we expect our students to learn to integrate these two goals. As our mission statement in the TC catalog notes, “The driving goal of our Clinical Psychology Program is to provide rigorous training in both contemporary clinical science and clinical assessment and intervention.”

A good deal of the training, especially that related to research, occurs through intensive participation in a research lab directed by a specific faculty mentor. It is this context, through this lab, that students develop their scientific skills and begin presenting their work at professional conferences and publishing in professional journals. Each student, of course, is also part of a cohort of doctoral students with whom they learn, collaborate, and socialize.

In recent years, graduates of our doctoral program have gained employment in tenure-track academic positions, as research scientists in medical schools, and as clinical researchers in a broad range of treatment settings. In addition, many of our graduates practice independently as well as in community settings for under-served populations.

The list of faculty reviewing and potentially accepting applicants for each cycle is listed on the application itself. Please check the application itself or email the admissions office at 

[email protected] for clarification.

Doug Mennin, Ph.D.

Professor, Director of Clinical Training

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The Dean Hope Center for Educational and Psychological Services (DHCEPS) is an integral part of the teaching and training programs in Clinical, Counseling, School Psychology, Learning Disability and Reading Specialist. The Center works in a two-folded way; first it offers students the opportunity to integrate theoretical coursework with practicum experience within a multidisciplinary setting. This training is foreseen by highly qualified supervisors. Simultaneously, the DHCEPS offers affordable psychological and educational services to individuals, couples, and families residing in the nearby neighborhood of the New York City area. The emphasis is on respecting and working with clients from diverse, multicultural contexts regardless of age, racial and ethnic background, socio-economic status, sexual orientation, and religious or cultural affiliations. Additionally, DHCEPS is committed to maintaining a liaison with community-based agencies and organizations such as schools, hospitals, and mental health clinics, among others.

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The Resilience Center for Veterans & Families pairs groundbreaking research on human emotional resilience with clinical training of therapists to assist veterans and their families as they transition back to civilian life.

Dean Hope Center for Psychological Services

The Dean Hope Center for Educational and Psychological Services (DHCEPS) is an integral part of the teaching and training programs in Clinical, Counseling, School Psychology, Learning Disability and Reading Specialist. The Center works in a two-folded way; first it offers students the opportunity to integrate theoretical coursework with practicum experience within a multidisciplinary setting. This training is foreseen by highly qualified supervisors.  Simultaneously, the DHCEPS offers affordable psychological and educational services to individuals, couples, and families residing in the nearby neighborhood of the New York City area. The emphasis is on respecting and working with clients from diverse, multicultural contexts regardless of age, racial and ethnic background, socio-economic status, sexual orientation, and religious or cultural affiliations.  DHCEPS also commits to maintaining a liaison with community-based agencies and organizations such as schools, hospitals and mental health clinics.

Admissions Information

Displaying requirements for the Spring 2025, Summer 2025, and Fall 2025 terms.

Doctor of Philosophy

• Points/Credits: 95
• Entry Terms: Fall
• Enrollment Formats: Full-Time

Application Deadlines

Select programs remain open beyond our standard application deadlines , such as those with an extended deadline or those that are rolling (open until June or July). If your program is rolling or has an extended deadline indicated above, applications are reviewed as they are received and on a space-available basis. We recommend you complete your application as soon as possible as these programs can close earlier if full capacity has been met.

Application Requirements

Requirements from the TC Catalog (AY 2023-2024)

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The Program requires the following:

The completion of 95 points of academic credit during three to four years of residence at the College.

A full-time, twelve-month clinical internship during the fourth or fifth year of study.

An original piece of empirical research, which also serves as a qualifying paper, to be completed during the second year of study.

A passing grade on the certification examination (on Research Methods) during the third year of study.

A Clinical case presentation as well as a research presentation, during the third year, each demonstrating the student’s ability to integrate theory, research, and practice.

A doctoral dissertation, which must be completed no later than the seventh year after matriculation.

During the first year of study, in addition to participating in a research lab, doctoral students typically take the following didactic courses: Ethical and professional issues in clinical psychology (CCPX 5030); Psychological measurement (HUDM 5059); courses on statistics and modeling; Research methods in social psychology (ORLJ 5040); Child psychopathology (CCPX 5034); Adult psychopathology (CCPX 5032); History and systems of psychology (CCPX 6020); and Dynamic psychotherapies (CCPX 5037). Students also take two semesters of psychological testing and diagnostic assessment (CCPX 5330, CCPX 5333) and a course in clinical interviewing (CCPX 5539).

Second Year

During their second year, students’ didactic courses include Brain and behavior (BBS 5068, 5069); Cognition, emotion, and culture (CCPX 5020); Psychotherapy with children (CCPX 5531); Cognitive, behavioral, and interpersonal therapies (CCPX 5038); Clinical work with diverse populations (CCPX 5036); and Seminar on life course development (HUDK 6520). In addition, students sign up for a full year of research practicum with a faculty member (culminating in an empirical second- year project), a full-year adult psychodynamic psychotherapy practicum (CCPX 6335), and an additional elective full-year clinical rotation (e.g., on child and adolescent psychotherapy; on neuropsychological assessment).

Third-year didactic courses include Group dynamics: A systems perspective (ORL 5362); and Dissertation seminar (CCPX 7500). There is also a full-year advanced psychodynamic clinical practicum (CCPX 6336) and a one-semester supervision and consultation practicum (CCPX 6333). Most students also elect a full-year family therapy practicum (CCPJ 6363).

Fourth and Fifth Year

The fourth year is typically focused on clinical externship (CCPX 5230) and extensive work on the dissertation. A full-year fourth year psychotherapy practicum (CCPX 6338) is recommended, though not required. Year five is usually spent on a full- year clinical internship (CCPX 6430).

The program allows only 12 points of graduate work from another institution to be transferred. No transfer credits are awarded for practica, workshops, or independent study.

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Psy.D. Vs. Ph.D.: Which Is The Right Fit For You?

Updated: Jan 2, 2024, 3:22pm

Committing to a Ph.D. or a Psy.D. program can have a significant impact on your career path. Both will prepare you for a career in psychology , but there are significant differences between the two programs you should know about. In general, a Ph.D. in psychology focuses more on research and a Psy.D. focuses on practical application.

While both programs can lead to becoming a licensed psychologist , taking a closer look at what each degree track will provide will help you determine whether a Ph.D. or Psy.D. is best for you.

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What Is a Ph.D. in Psychology?

A Ph.D. in psychology, or a Doctor of Philosophy in psychology, is a doctoral degree that primarily focuses on training students in scientific research. Compared to a Psy.D, the Ph.D. is more common and can be found at many public and private universities.

Students in a Ph.D. in psychology program can expect to obtain and build on the knowledge and skills within general psychology or in a concentration. The American Psychological Association (APA) has an extensive list of subfields that range from clinical psychology to climate and environmental psychology.

Benefits of a Ph.D. in Psychology

A significant benefit of a Ph.D. in psychology is that it offers more financial aid options. Many programs offer scholarships, teaching assistantships or even full or partial tuition remission to cover expenses. Some programs also have research grants and fellowships that are sponsored by government agencies and private companies that you can apply for and become part of a research team.

Another benefit is that some programs offer training in both applied practice and in research, rather than focusing heavily on application as a Psy.D. program would. Having dual training may provide you more opportunities on the job market.

What Is a Psy.D.?

A Psy.D., or a Doctor of Psychology, is also a doctoral degree that focuses on application. A Psy.D. program prepares students to provide services for patients and clients, rather than a focus on research.

Unlike a Ph.D., Psy.D. programs are often found in professional schools of psychology that may be university-based, free-standing or in medical or health and science institutions.

Benefits of a Psy.D.

While a Psy.D. may not have the same financial benefits of a Ph.D. program, a Psy.D. will give you more experience with patients earlier in your program. Candidates will often begin coursework and clinical training in the first year of their program.

A Psy.D. program, such as one for aspiring clinical psychologists , features an intensive focus on client-focused skills. Courses can include supervision and consultation, treatment and assessment and other classes that will cover disorders.

In some Psy.D. programs, you may be expected to complete a doctoral-level research project instead of a dissertation.

What to Consider When Choosing a Program

The first consideration you should make when choosing a program is the kind of work you want to pursue post-graduation. Do you want to do research or teach? Do you want to provide services to clients and patients?

Here are some considerations you should make when making the big decision.

Look at Time Spent in School

Both Ph.D. and Psy.D. programs require a heavy investment of your time in school. Programs often require applicants to have an undergraduate and master’s degree. However, some programs have combined master’s and doctorate degrees, reducing years of education and allowing students to enter the workforce sooner.

Students can expect to spend five years in school before obtaining a degree, with four years of coursework and one year of internship. Many candidates, however, take between five to seven years to graduate.

Find Your Focus

Your academic focus and concentration choice may sway your decision in applying for one doctoral degree over the other.

Concentrations in a Psy.D program are typically in clinical, counseling, school or industrial-organizational psychology . In contrast, the options of subfields within a Ph.D. program are more broad and focus heavily on research and experimentation to build knowledge within a discipline.

Consider Your Career Path

Considering your career path or interests will help you decide whether a Ph.D. or Psy.D. is right for you. While the most familiar psychology careers are commonly found in education and healthcare, psychologists are needed in other industries, such as business and technology. These in-demand specialties contribute to high psychologist salaries .

Accreditation

Accreditation of your Ph.D. or Psy.D. program ensures that your program is recognized by the governing bodies for licensure. While completing an accredited program will not guarantee you employment or licensure, it will equip you with necessary skills and knowledge.

The APA has a tool to help students find accredited doctoral programs, as well as internships and postdoctoral residencies across the country.

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

What can you do with psy.d..

A Psy.D. focuses on working directly with patients to provide psychological services. For example, a clinical Psy.D. will prepare students to provide mental and behavioral healthcare to individuals and families across all demographics and over individuals’ lifespans.

Which psychology field is most in-demand?

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects strong job growth for psychologists from 2022 to 2032, with a 6% increase overall. Clinical and counseling psychologists will see the highest demand, with an expected growth rate of 11%, followed by industrial-organizational psychologists at 6%.

How long does it take to earn a Ph.D. in psychology?

Many Ph.D. programs project a five year completion time. However, many students can take upwards of seven years.

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How Long Does It Take to Get a PhD in Psychology?

Ariel Skelley/Getty Images 

• How Long Will It Take?

Before You Earn PhD in Psychology

Which type of degree should you get, can you finish your degree early.

Just how long does it take to get a PhD in psychology? The answer can vary depending on your program, educational background, and academic schedule. In general, most PhD psychology programs take anywhere from five to seven years to complete.

Learning more about what it takes to get a doctorate in psychology can help you better plan your educational and career journey.

At a Glance

Getting a PhD in psychology can take several years of graduate study. If you are thinking about becoming a psychologist, research your degree options to figure out what type of degree you need and how long it will take to enter your chosen profession. No matter what you decide, plan to spend anywhere from three to seven years in graduate school to earn a doctorate.

How Long Will It Take to Get a Doctorate Degree?

How long it takes to get a doctorate in psychology depends on various factors, including the type of degree you have selected, your educational background, and the individual doctorate program in which you have enrolled.

Most doctorate programs in psychology take between four to seven years to complete.

PhD in Psychology

Most PhD programs require at least five to seven years to complete. These programs often follow a scientist-practitioner model that trains professionals both in research and clinical practice.

In addition to regular coursework, you may also be expected to complete an internship or supervised residency. The program usually culminates in completing an original research project or dissertation.

PsyD Degree

Most PsyD programs require between four to six years to complete. A PsyD is a degree designed to train professionals to apply psychological knowledge to treating and helping people in real-world settings.

According to the American Psychological Association, PsyD programs focus more on applying psychological science, usually in the form of service.  

Most EdD programs require between three to five years to complete. EdD programs are often focused on psychology, counseling, or counselor education. They explore topics that involve both education and psychology.

It is important to note that many applicants to EdD programs already hold a master's degree in a related field. This differs from applicants to PhD and PsyD programs, who often begin their program of study with a bachelor's degree.

Before you begin your academic journey, it is a good idea to look at just how long it will take you to complete your degree. The amount of time it will take can depend upon various factors, including:

• Your chosen specialty area
• The program you select
• The course load you can take each semester

A doctorate-level degree in psychology is required to work in many job areas, including as a licensed clinical psychologist or counseling psychologist. According to the American Psychological Association, a doctorate degree is also often required in fields such as school psychology or health psychology .

So how long does it take to get a PhD in Psychology ? First, it is essential to realize that the degree requirements can vary depending on the field that you decide to pursue. A PhD, or Doctor of Philosophy degree is not necessarily your only option. In some cases, you might want also to consider the PsyD (Doctor of Psychology) or the EdD (Doctor of Education) degree options.

The PhD, PsyD, and EdD are all great options, but don't let how long it takes to complete be the primary deciding factor. Before you decide to get a doctorate degree, start by deciding which type of degree is most suited to your professional goals.

If you want to conduct research:

A PhD in Psychology tends to focus on a research-based model of education. People with a PhD in Psychology are qualified for a wide range of teaching, research, and clinical positions in colleges, universities, hospitals, government offices, and private mental health practices.

If you want to treat mental health issues:

The PsyD degree option generally focuses on a practitioner-based model of education. Individuals with a PsyD degree can also teach or conduct psychology research, but they frequently work in applied settings to provide direct mental health services.

If you want to apply psychology to help students:

Finally, there is also a third doctorate option that you might also want to consider depending on your career goals. If you are interested in working as a school psychologist or in a related educational field, the EdD, or Doctor of Education, is a possible option.

Despite the years of work, earning your PhD, PsyD, or EdD can be well worth the effort. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics suggests that workers with a doctoral or education specialist degree in clinical, counseling, and school psychology will find the strongest job opportunities.

Generally, if you have a strong background in psychology and have completed all of the necessary prerequisites, you can finish your doctorate sooner than students who have not taken the prerequisite courses.

Carefully planning your degree can also help ensure you complete the program requirements quickly.

Be sure you have a clear idea of what you want to do with your psychology degree once you've completed it. Do you want to teach, or is research more appealing to you? Are you interested in seeing clients, or are you planning to combine your training in psychology with another field, such as law or medicine?

If you need help deciding, make an important with an academic advisor at your school. They can help you explore your options and answer any questions you may have.

What This Means For You

No matter the degree you decide to pursue, earning a doctorate in psychology requires a significant investment of time, money, and effort. Because of this, it is essential to carefully consider your goals before deciding on a graduate program. You should also think about whether you need a doctorate or if a master's might be more appropriate.

Gee DG, DeYoung KA, McLaughlin KA, et al. Training the next generation of clinical psychological scientists: A data-driven call to action .  Annu Rev Clin Psychol . 2022;18:43-70. doi:10.1146/annurev-clinpsy-081219-092500

Loyola University. Can I get my Psy.D. without a Master's in Psychology?

American Psychological Association. Doctoral degrees in psychology: How are they different, or not so different ?

Franklin University. Is getting a Doctorate in Education worth it?

American Psychological Association. Frequently asked questions about graduate school .

Bureau of Labor Statistics. Psychologists . Occupational Outlook Handbook .

Carr, A. Clinical Psychology: An Introduction . London: Routledge; 2012.

Kuther, TL. The Psychology Major's Handbook . Boston, MA: Cengage Learning; 2016.

By Kendra Cherry, MSEd Kendra Cherry, MS, is a psychosocial rehabilitation specialist, psychology educator, and author of the "Everything Psychology Book."

MS vs PhD: Which Psychology Degree Should You Get?

An  undergraduate degree  proves a great starting point for people interested in careers involving psychology. To advance into occupations involving greater responsibility and pay, however, generally requires a graduate degree.

For instance, a master’s degree in psychology is one of the necessities to become a licensed therapist, such as a marriage and family therapist – a career the  Bureau of Labor Statistics  (BLS) predicts to grow a whopping 16% between 2020-2030. And becoming a  psychologist  – a position with an average median annual salary of $82,180 – requires earning a doctorate in psychology.

What Are MS and PhD in Psychology Degrees For?

The  MS (Master of Science) in Psychology  and the  PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) in Psychology  are degrees for people interested in advanced study in the discipline. Students obtain a greater understanding of human behavior and how to help others. Degree earners are often interested in careers as therapists, licensed psychologists, researchers, or professors.

Choosing Between a Master’s Degree in Psychology vs. a Doctor of Philosophy in Psychology Program

The choice between pursuing a Master’s Degree in Psychology vs. a PhD in Psychology boils down to individual interests and career aspirations. Many students find a MS in Psychology sufficient for the types of jobs they want. Others discover a doctorate necessary for the occupations to which they aspire.

What Is a MS in Psychology?

An MS in Psychology is a graduate degree that prepares recipients for a variety of careers. It also can serve as a building block to entering doctoral studies, and an MS program typically takes about two years to complete. Online MS in Psychology programs sometimes offers accelerated options in which ambitious students can finish in around 18 months.

While coursework varies by institution and personal interests, students in psychology master’s programs often take these classes:

• Lifespan development
• Research methodology
• Cognitive psychology
• Social psychology
• Personality
• Foundations of therapy
• Family systems theory
• Abnormal psychology

Some students focus on general psychology. Others gear their master’s program to a specific area. Some niche choices include:

• Educational psychology
• Forensic psychology
• Clinical psychology
• Industrial-organizational psychology
• Sport psychology
• Health psychology
• Counseling psychology
• Child and adolescent development
• Applied behavior analysis

Who Should Get a MS in Psychology?

Students who want to expand their knowledge of psychology beyond the undergraduate level often seek a master’s degree. Some students pursue an MS to become more attractive candidates to schools when they apply to doctoral programs. 

Others enter the workforce after receiving their MS in psychology. They find careers in the following fields:

• Advertising
• Human resources
• Criminal justice
• Social services
• Mental health

What Can You Do with a MS in Psychology?

Individuals who have earned a Master’s in Psychology find their degree a gateway to various types of jobs dealing with people and what influences their behavior. A sample of possible occupations is listed below.

What Is a PhD In Psychology?

A PhD in psychology is the highest-level degree within the discipline. Earning it signifies academic excellence and dedication to the field. In addition to mastering psychological theories and concepts, PhD candidates learn how to advance scientific knowledge through their own original research.

Who Should Get a PhD In Psychology?

Obtaining a PhD in psychology is a rigorous process. It involves classwork, passing an oral exam demonstrating competency, and completing a dissertation. Practicums, internships, and teaching experiences may also be part of the program.

Students thinking about entering such a program should possess a  strong background in psychology , such as a bachelor’s and/or master’s degree. They also should look closely at their career goals and decide whether a PhD puts them on the right path.

What Can You Do with a PhD In Psychology?

The expertise obtained from earning a PhD in Psychology opens doors to a variety of careers. Three sample positions include:

Many PhDs remain in academia. They teach classes at colleges and junior colleges as well as perform research in their area of interest within the field of psychology. The BLS lists the mean annual wage for postsecondary psychology teachers as $85,050. 6

Clinical psychologists diagnose and treat a variety of mental, emotional, and behavioral problems. Some specialize in certain areas, such as treating depression or eating disorders. Others work with specific populations, such as children or the elderly. The median yearly salary for a clinical psychologist in 2020 was $79,820 per the BLS. 7

These professionals apply their knowledge of psychology to the workplace. Companies and governmental organizations hire them to examine issues such as productivity, morale, teamwork, hiring, and organizational development. Their suggestions lead to workplace improvements. The BLS reports the median annual salary for an industrial-organizational psychologist in 2020 as $96,270. 7

PsyD Vs PhD at a Glance

Individuals wishing to earn a doctorate have another option besides a PhD in Psychology. They may pursue a PsyD (Doctor of Psychology). Selecting which to earn depends on the student’s educational and career interests.

In general, PsyD programs:

• Focus heavily on applied psychology
• Take 4-7 years to complete
• Attract students interested in working as therapists inc community mental health, hospital, and private practice settings

By comparison, PhD programs in psychology:

• Focus extensively on generating new knowledge through scientific research
• Attract students interested in remaining in academia as professors and researchers, though many do  seek licensure and become practicing psychologists

What to Look for in Psychology Graduate Degree Programs

Online vs. on-campus learning.

Whether a student wishes to pursue a master’s degree or a doctorate, choices exist regarding the learning format. Some schools offer graduate-level psychology programs online. Choosing such a route can prove beneficial in terms of access, flexibility, and cost. 

Online studies remove geographical barriers when selecting an institution, which opens up a greater pool from which to choose. Remaining at home eliminates expenses related to travel and campus housing, and students with spouses or children do not need to upend their family’s lives to further their education and careers.

Students seeking online degrees should check the terms, however. Some programs include short residency requirements. Likewise, individuals may need to go to campus or other physical sites to complete research projects, internships, practicums, or other hands-on experiences.

Of course, regular on-site programs remain an option for students preferring traditional graduate school. A consistent schedule and the social aspect of attending classes physically alongside others still appeal to many students.

Psychology Certification and Licensure

Psychology-related occupations often require state licensure. Knowing the specifics for the state in which one hopes to find employment can guide educational and career choices and prevent unwelcome surprises down the line.

Psychologists, for example, typically need to complete the following:

• A PsyD or a PhD in Psychology
• An internship
• A post-doc or 1-year supervised professional experience after the internship
• A passing score on the Examination for Professional Practice in Psychology 
• Completion of a dissertation or case study

States usually require all licensed therapists to complete the following:

• A master’s degree
• A range of 2,000-4,000 hours of post-degree supervised clinical experience
• A successful exam score

Applying to Psychology Doctoral Programs

Acceptance into a Doctoral in Psychology program involves applying to individual institutions. Competition for spots can be substantial, so candidates should apply to several schools in order to increase the chances of getting in. 

Some places are more selective than others and may present harder entrance requirements. Someone who has not completed an undergraduate degree in psychology or a sufficient number of psychology courses will likely need to address this gap before seeking admission.

Admissions Requirements for PsyD and PhD Programs

Depending on where a student applies, the prospective school may ask for the following::

• Official transcripts from past collegiate studies at the undergraduate and graduate level, including classes taken, GPA, and degree(s) awarded with date
• Proof of any internships, certifications, or licenses
• A resume of work history, including dates and duties
• A description of other relevant activities, such as volunteer work or participation in professional associations
• Scores from the GRE and the GRE Psychology Test
• 2-3 letters of recommendation that support the candidacy
• Responses to essay prompts
• A personal statement explaining why the student wants to pursue this degree
• Interviews with faculty

Note that some programs look only at candidates who already possess a Master’s Degree in Psychology or a closely related field. Others accept students with a bachelor’s degree into a combined master’s/doctoral program.

Accreditation

Selecting a school with regional accreditation ensures the institution has met certain educational standards. Choose one approved by the  U.S. Department of Education  or the nonprofit  Council for Higher Education Accreditation  (CHEA). Your school’s specific graduate psychology program also should be accredited by one or both of these organizations.

Another important factor is checking if the program is accredited by the American Psychological Association (APA). 8  Satisfying licensure requirements in some states can be problematic without APA accreditation. Likewise, employers will often look at only job candidates who graduated from an APA-approved program and completed an APA-accredited internship.

Graduate Psychology Career Resources

The following organizations provide further information on licensure for different careers:

• The Association of State and Provincial Psychology Boards
• The National Board for Certified Counselors
• The Association of Marital and Family Therapy Regulatory Boards
• Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor Certification
• Someone possessing a PhD is not a medical doctor. A PhD is a doctor of philosophy. In recognition of the expertise obtained from completing this rigorous course of study, holders of a PhD are entitled to use the title “Doctor” if they so choose.
• One isn’t better than the other, just different. Which degree to pursue depends on individual interests and career aspirations. Aspiring therapists and counselors often choose a master’s program. Those wishing to become licensed psychologists must complete a doctoral program. Also, PhD programs focus heavily on research and often lead to working in an academic setting or consulting.
• Some career options for people who earn a graduate degree in psychology include marriage and family therapist, mental health counselor, substance abuse counselor, counseling psychologist, researcher, and psychology professor.
• A person holding a PhD in psychology is not a medical doctor and usually cannot write prescriptions. A few states do allow psychologists with training in psychopharmacology to prescribe a limited number of psychiatric medications. The majority of prescriptions, however, are written out by psychiatrists since they are MDs.
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/community-and-social-service/marriage-and-family-therapists.htm#tab-1
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/psychologists.htm#tab-1
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/community-and-social-service/substance-abuse-behavioral-disorder-and-mental-health-counselors.htm#tab-1
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/market-research-analysts.htm
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/training-and-development-specialists.htm
• https://www.bls.gov/oes/2017/may/oes251066.htm
• https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/psychologists.htm#tab-5
• https://www.accreditation.apa.org/accredited-programs

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• Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]

Did you get your PhD in Clinical Psychology from Fielding University? If so, was it worth it?

• Thread starter lisajones81
• Start date Nov 25, 2021
• Tags alliant apa apa-accredited fielding university

lisajones81

• Nov 25, 2021

Full Member

I have not attended Fielding, but I imagine a search on this forum will turn up thoughts from those who have or those who considered it.  

YoungFrancis

The people that are telling you it’s awful are better sources of information than actual graduates of the program. The people on this board make hiring decisions and will toss out Fielding students’ CVs because of the poor quality of the program. I’m certain that if you look hard enough you will find someone who will rave about the program. But keep in mind that former students might also be trying to convince themselves that they made the right decision. https://www.fielding.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Student-Admissions-Outcomes-and-Other-Data-1.pdf ^^These outcome stats are among the worst in our field. It’s a huge red flag. There are other ways to achieve your goals if you are location restricted. But if you are dead set on a PhD in Clinical, you will need to look elsewhere.  

lisajones81 said: I was a teacher. I quit when I had kids. Now, like ten years later, I want pursue my PhD in psychology to fulfill my end goal of becoming a professor and/or having my own practice. Click to expand...

AcronymAllergy

Neuropsychologist.

I've intermittently worked with a Fielding trainee or two and have reviewed applications for a handful more, and can say the training (in my experiences) left a lot to be desired. Even with the highly motivated students, their opportunities and program support appeared very limited and the former of highly variable quality, and they were fighting a very steep uphill battle relative to their peers from other programs in terms of competitiveness and competency.  

lisajones81 said: So. Fielding offers me the opportunity I need/want to do this. I can do the hybrid part in Santa Barbara or wherever else- I just can't go daily each week to a school all day. Click to expand...

YoungFrancis said: The people that are telling you it’s awful are better sources of information than actual graduates of the program. The people on this board make hiring decisions and will toss out Fielding students’ CVs because of the poor quality of the program. I’m certain that if you look hard enough you will find someone who will rave about the program. But keep in mind that former students might also be trying to convince themselves that they made the right decision. https://www.fielding.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Student-Admissions-Outcomes-and-Other-Data-1.pdf ^^These outcome stats are among the worst in our field. It’s a huge red flag. There are other ways to achieve your goals if you are location restricted. But if you are dead set on a PhD in Clinical, you will need to look elsewhere. Click to expand...

Board Certified in Clinical Neuropsychology

In a VERY competitive academic market, you will have an extremely difficult time becoming a professor with a "degree" from Fielding.  

Pedantic Pirate

AcronymAllergy said: I've intermittently worked with a Fielding trainee or two and have reviewed applications for a handful more, and can say the training (in my experiences) left a lot to be desired. Even with the highly motivated students, their opportunities and program support appeared very limited and the former of highly variable quality, and they were fighting a very steep uphill battle relative to their peers from other programs in terms of competitiveness and competency. Click to expand...

R. Matey said: Seconded. I've worked with a few and have been generally unimpressed by training. I've heard there are coursework tracks depending on whether you psychoanalytic, cognitive behavioral, or humanistic/existential. Someone can verify, but I think that speaks volumes. Click to expand...

Therapist4Chnge

Neuropsych ninja.

Don't do it. Many never finish. Fewer get licensed. Then you need to convince someone to hire you bc most don't view Fielding as a real program (myself included). APA-acred is a bare minimum and states are getting stricter w requirements.  

Don't take our word for it. Look at the CVs/resumes of faculty at universities you would like to be employed by in the future. Pay attention to their graduate programs, internships, and post docs. Look at how many times they moved. Look at the number of publications each has. Then think about whether you will be competitive for that job coming from Fielding. Are you ready to put in that kind of work?  

WisNeuro said: I have had two experiences personally with work experiences of Fielding grads at training levels. Both clinical products were absolutely terrible. Click to expand...

• Nov 26, 2021

R. Matey said: Were these practicum students? I heard they had to look for their own prac sites, which can take them out of state sometimes. Click to expand...

Psychologist

You should spend some time learning how the job works. Professors get hired because they publish research. That publication history starts in undergrad, gets solidified in grad school, and leads to professorship. Most research requires an "institutional review board", per federal rules. You'll notice that "qualitative research" rarely requires an "institutional review board". And that most online schools talk about "qualitative research". TL; DR: The school format is grossly incompatible with becoming a professor. caveat: The only SDN action I have been threatened with a lawsuit is related to talking about online schools. And I talk a LOT of smack. Notice how Harvard doesn't threaten to sue? That should tell you something.  

• Nov 27, 2021

So what if I only go into private practice. Does any of it matter then? If I can get the internship - even with Fielding's program- can I go into private practice on my own and pretty much I do not have to worry about someone hiring me?  

foreverbull

lisajones81 said: So what if I only go into private practice. Does any of it matter then? If I can get the internship - even with Fielding's program- can I go into private practice on my own and pretty much I do not have to worry about someone hiring me? Click to expand...

I don't want to drop dreams of academia, but I am trying to gauge what I can accomplish. The closest university to me is Fuller Theological Seminary. They require a reference from a pastor etc. I'm actually from a very religious background so that is fine, but I was still hoping that Fielding would be doable for me. The bluntness is fine. I am gambling a lot here. I've already invested about 6k in this goal by attending a university that has enabled me to work with a PI and his lab. I am first author on a poster we will present soon. He's going to let me pursue research topics of interest to me. My GPA from undergrad was 3.9 and I minored in Psychology. I'm an extremely resourceful person which is why I think maybe I am blinded to the possibility that I can't do something or that it isn't an option for me. I've been working crisis lines for over a year now and cannot think of anything else I would rather do more than this sort of work. I do not want to be a marriage and family therapist. at all. I want to work with children and adolescents within the realms of depression and suicidology. I want to be able to diagnose mental illnesses and personality disorders. So. if I can go to Fielding- get the internship- do the postbac hours locally and get research done with the fielding professors- and publish my research- then am I still doomed? I appreciate these thorough answers. I do not want to waste time and money. I would love to hear more of what you mean about requirements and how the APA accreditation is becoming insignificant etc. I'm not aware of the current hiring situation.  

lisajones81 said: So. if I can go to Fielding- get the internship- do the postbac hours locally and get research done with the fielding professors- and publish my research- then am I still doomed? Click to expand...

lisajones81 said: I do not want to waste time and money.........I'm not aware of the current hiring situation. Click to expand...

lisajones81 said: how the APA accreditation is becoming insignificant Click to expand...

lisajones81 said: I want to work with children and adolescents within the realms of depression and suicidology. I want to be able to diagnose mental illnesses and personality disorders. Click to expand...

I agree with @summerbabe . I wasn’t saying APA internship match rate wasn’t important, I was only saying one bad match year isn’t always indicative of a bad program—look at the past 5-10 years and average out the APA internship match rate. I’m wondering if you have a misconception about MFTs and what a master’s in it will prepare you to do, perhaps? Plenty of MFTs I know work with children and adolescents (or adults only, and not necessarily couples work), and I know several MFTs in private practice. As far as personality disorders, you will have to make sure you have a practicum (clinical work) or internship or postgraduate hours in a setting in which your supervisor specializes in a/some personality disorder(s) for you to get appropriate training as a specialty if that’s what you’d like to work with regularly (are you JUST wanting to diagnose it often as in providing formal personality assessments and reports but not providing ongoing therapy? Then that’s a different ballgame entirely that would require a doctorate to provide formal assessment services. You can, however, diagnose personality disorders with a master’s degree if it’s clearcut and there’s no ambiguity in the client’s presentation). Inpatient settings might be a good bet for more experience with personality disorders should you hope to specialize. But it’s partially on you to make sure you get that experience as part of your training if you want that skill. MFT degrees provide a background in therapy with a little coursework in family/couples therapy and family systems, as far as I know, but they also still train you in general counseling skills and diagnosis so you have flexibility. It’s the most common counseling degree in California (an MA in Counseling is less popular in the state), but in practice is not much different from an MA in counseling or a clinical SW degree (except LCSW’s have more flexibility in terms of roles and settings they can work in and a different training foundation).  

NeuroJaguar

Sounds like you would be a good fit for a Master's in Social Work to become an LCSW. As an LCSW, assuming you get clinical experience in the settings you want to work in during your training and unlicensed supervised years, you will be qualified to work with children and adolescents with depression and suicidality, as well as to diagnose conditions in the DSM. You may also then be qualified to teach as an adjunct professor at Social Work programs. Since you don't have geographic flexibility, I really don't think a clinical psychology doctorate is going to work out for you. To get good training, you need to be able to move around the country various times. Fielding is not going to prepare you for the career you want to have. It will be a waste of money and time. I don't hear anything that you want to do that you can't do as an LCSW, except be deeply involved in academia, which in my experience inherently involves geographic flexibility. You can certainly work with the populations you want to work with, in the ways that you want to work with them as an LCSW, all with your geographic limitation.  

Mindfulpsych22

Yes. I have worked in settings that primarily treat suicidal youth and the clinicians are a mix of master's level and doctoral level providers. They do the exact same clinical duties. I did a google search of DBT programs in the LA area (these will be programs that specialize in treating suicidal youth and personality disorders) and you can see that many of the staff are masters level clinicians: Therapists – Westside DBT CBT California . I think getting some sort of professor gig with a Fielding Doctorate and the limitations you mentioned will be far-fetched but you can have the exact clinical career you want by going to a reputable master's program and being strategic with your practicum and post-degree training opportunities. IMO, this is the best use of your time and money.  

Thank you everyone. This is a wealth of information for me. One thing I don't think I fully understand is-- why does the training for academia require moving about the country? I've seen this mentioned a few times in this thread and I don't think I've accepted and/or understand it. So let's say I earn my PhD and license from Fielding and then what? Those postdoc hours of training require moving to different places?  

Also are there reputable online master's programs online?  

Also- what do you think about this? Licensed clinical social workers (LCSWs) and clinical psychologists both have the goal of helping patients with their problems through evaluation and treatment. The main difference between LCSW and psychologist job duties lies in the authority that clinical psychologists may have to prescribe certain specific medications and to perform psychological testing. These in-demand counseling occupations also differ in the type of graduate degree needed and expected wages. Clinical psychologists have a doctoral education that leads to a higher salary than what LCSWs make, while LCSWs have slightly better career prospects in terms of job growth and ease of entry into the occupation. This is obviously a cut/paste, but my motivation is decreased with the thought of pursuing a LCSW rather than a PhD for many of the reasons listed above.  

lisajones81 said: Also- what do you think about this? Licensed clinical social workers (LCSWs) and clinical psychologists both have the goal of helping patients with their problems through evaluation and treatment. The main difference between LCSW and psychologist job duties lies in the authority that clinical psychologists may have to prescribe certain specific medications and to perform psychological testing. These in-demand counseling occupations also differ in the type of graduate degree needed and expected wages. Clinical psychologists have a doctoral education that leads to a higher salary than what LCSWs make, while LCSWs have slightly better career prospects in terms of job growth and ease of entry into the occupation. This is obviously a cut/paste, but my motivation is decreased with the thought of pursuing a LCSW rather than a PhD for many of the reasons listed above. Click to expand...

lisajones81 said: why does the training for academia require moving about the country? Click to expand...

lisajones81 said: One thing I don't think I fully understand is-- why does the training for academia require moving about the country? I've seen this mentioned a few times in this thread and I don't think I've accepted and/or understand it. Click to expand...

AbnormalPsych

Board certified psychologist.

lisajones81 said: I do not want to be a marriage and family therapist. at all. I want to work with children and adolescents within the realms of depression and suicidology. I want to be able to diagnose mental illnesses and personality disorders. Click to expand...

• Nov 28, 2021

***** You have not spent enough time learning about how the profession works. This is a HUGE mistake that will affect you. This is almost a 10 year commitment, with a median debt load of ~100k. If you cannot be bothered to commit 20 hours to learning how things like internship works, you will likely be unable to commit the time needed to successfully complete a program***** 1) You might benefit from reading about the required career path. Internship is more like residency for physicians. You cannot graduate without an internship. This is not like a college "internship", where you get someone in your city to make one up. This is a highly formalized process, where there are places that have spent hundreds of hours and tons of money to become an internship site, that is registered with the formal educational body that accredits internships. There are a limited number of internships sites, and those places get their pick of the litter. You apply to one of the available sites, interview, and get "matched" to one of those on "match day". After you complete internship, you graduate. But you're not licensed. So, once you graduate, you have to complete a post doc to get licensed. If you specialize, there are formal training requirements for those as well. 2) Academia is a ridiculous profession, where your real worth is publishing research. Teaching is more of an additional duty. To get hired, you have to show that you have a history of publishing research. But, you also have to get grant money to finance your research. Guess how grants determine who to give money to? How much the applicant has published. The universities, therefore, hire established researchers who stay in those positions forever unless they are offered awesome gigs in cool places. And then grad students teach. Because everyone wants to live in the cities, the job openings are in like... IDK...northern Idaho. And community colleges pay almost minimum wage. 3) I would be VERY concerned if you thought you could work full time during grad school. 4) Private practice is running a small business. It's not a simple matter. There are start up costs, gaps in your schedule, and variability in pay. The entire, "I'll only see patients while my kids are in school" thing is nonsense.  

PsyDr said: 4) Private practice is running a small business. It's not a simple matter. There are start up costs, gaps in your schedule, and variability in pay. The entire, "I'll only see patients while my kids are in school" thing is nonsense. Click to expand...

WisNeuro said: Maybe if the OP only wants to see elderly, retired individuals on Medicare, they could make a "school schedule" practice work. Otherwise, yeah, almost everyone wants appointments 3PM or later. Click to expand...

PsyDr said: Some of my cohort REALLY hated me asking about how a practice could work, if they only had 2-3 billable hours per normal work day. The professor who taught me about the business of psychology thought it was very funny. Click to expand...

lisajones81 said: Also are there reputable online master's programs online? Click to expand...

To summarize what folks are saying: academia is EXTREMELY competitive, even for folks from far more reputable schools than Fielding, and usually the end result is living wherever the job is in the US. It will be difficult if not impossible to become a tenure-track professor with a Fielding degree. Private practice can take YEARS to build (mine took a few years to fill up a small part-time practice), and you may lose money initially given the costs to start (insurances, office, furniture, marketing/websites, etc.). It’s expensive if you start out without another job as a cushion for sure, and will require another source of income initially (ie a spouse). It’s doable, but only if you’re patient and willing to spend a lot of unpaid hours researching as you go. The other important point that folks are making regards the difficulty of graduate school in terms of investment of time, energy, and money, and aptitude. Online programs in our field are, to put it bluntly, willing to take pretty much anyone for money without a care for what happens on the other side. Which is a problem. That means no quality control in terms of who should and shouldn’t be practicing, and possibly harm to clients and our entire profession at the other side. Acceptance rates shouldn’t be high for graduate school because it requires a special subset of skills and aptitudes. People don’t work full-time during grad school because grad school IS the focus. Part-time work is common, but definitely not full-time in reputable programs, regardless of whether they are masters or doctorates. You aren’t the first person in here who wants to get a graduate degree and wants to sort of do it on the side while life is happening because why shouldn’t we have it all?Unfortunately, that isn’t how grad school works when people take it seriously. It takes sacrifices. For folks not prepared to make those sacrifices, they get a rude awakening when they actually realize how much time, money, and energy it will cost them. Not to mention the delay of waiting several years before making a decent income between grad school, supervised practice before licensure, and then being paid less as an early career professional once you get out. OP, I’d suggest that you take some time to reflect on how many years you’re willing to sacrifice to your future career prospects and consider which path will make the most sense for you. Bottom line, online programs are not the way to go. Most of us wish they'd be shut down to protect students, the public, and our profession as a whole, but because they aren’t regulated, they prey on “busy” people who want to get an advanced degree but don’t know the ropes of how the system works (and allow folks who wouldn’t otherwise get into grad school at all because they lack the aptitude, ethics, drive, etc.). California is also a state completely saturated with master’s level therapists and psychologists. Attending a terrible program will immediately make you less competitive out of the gate even before the interview stage of getting a job (when they see your resume/CV). And I say that as a psychologist who had some difficulty getting an adjunct teaching gig in this state coming from a reputable APA-accredited program out of state. I was shocked by the number of applications that never even received a response. As I said, give things some more thought (consider the costs and benefits and sacrifices), and perhaps that will help you decide the best path for yourself?  

cara susanna

• Nov 29, 2021

summerbabe said: Academia and becoming an expert in a subfield of psychology is a really specialized training process/career, as opposed to becoming a social worker or mechanic so people end up relocating to attend funded programs and work with PIs with aligned interests and a track record of mentoring students who go on to find jobs in academia rather than whatever program is closest. Then, people will relocate again to attend internship and potentially a research postdoc before heading out on the job market. Some may move again within a few years after getting their initial assistant professorship in search of better opportunities (salary, research funding, geography). I was raised in the Bay Area and did my PhD at a state school in the deep south. Of the 25+ professors in our various psych PhD programs, I think only like 3 or 4 were originally from the state or region. Everybody else was a transplant and came there for the job and then settled (or were looking to move on elsewhere for a better gig). Click to expand...

theSteppenwolf

https://mitch.web.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/4922/2017/02/MitchGradSchoolAdvice.pdf You can find very useful information about the process here.  

DynamicDidactic

Still kickin'.

• Nov 30, 2021

@lisajones81 If you really want to get into the field of mental health, start with a master's program. Find a flexible, part time program near you. Once you have finished the program and get licensed you can start working in the field. You can come back and continue onto a doctoral program later in life. You can even find work teaching as a master's-level instructor. This would be the safer route to start out with. It gets you back into school, it will get you acquainted with the mental health field, and it helps you avoid potential major pitfalls. Remember, the posters on this board have little reason to dissuade you (so, if they are you should take stock of that). People that work or have attended these programs are going to be much more biased by their experiences.  

iheartbacon

One of my friends graduated from Fielding and is a licensed psychologist. She seems to be doing okay. She was also relatively limited in her options (also a mom), and was looking at only online programs; I think Fielding is the only APA-accredited one, so it was her preferred option. You might be able to search for students of the program on LinkedIn to connect and ask their experience if you are having a difficult time finding people who attended the program to give you feedback. Otherwise, perhaps if you contact Fielding directly, they would know of students willing to speak with you. I am older, with multiple children, and it has definitely been a challenge. This year has been the hardest actually, with spending a lot of time working on my dissertation and internship applications, as it is the most time I've had to give up spending with my kids, and next year will be even harder at a full-time internship (assuming I match). I believe California offers some part-time internships. Otherwise, as many others before me have noted, there are other avenues to pursue the same goal if you think a doctoral program would not work at this time. Wishing you the best with your journey!  

• Dec 1, 2021

I would like to stress that the feedback you’ve received thus far is grounded not only in providing reasoned guidance to you but playing a gate-keeper function for the profession. I think everyone can understand the constraints that people sometimes have in their lives and how they can make shortcuts seem reasonable and attractive. I think you’ll be hard-pressed to find respected professionals in this field (or those of us in process) who will validate or even loosely support a decision to take a shortcut. Such paths shortchange the student, the clients they potentially serve, and anyone else to whom they offer professional services. It can be difficult to see all the factors at play from the outside looking in where training is concerned. You’ve made a smart choice by seeking out input from those who have already traversed this path.  

Clinical Psychologist & Neuropsychologist

• Dec 5, 2021

lisajones81 said: I am a mom of four kids. I was a teacher. I quit when I had kids. Now, like ten years later, I want pursue my PhD in psychology to fulfill my end goal of becoming a professor and/or having my own practice. I cannot drive to any of the schools in my southern california area because they all take 2 hours in traffic one-way and I am the main support for the kids. So. Fielding offers me the opportunity I need/want to do this. I can do the hybrid part in Santa Barbara or wherever else- I just can't go daily each week to a school all day. It's the only hybrid I know of that is APA accredited- but everyone keeps saying it's awful and going there is a waste of money etc. But it's go there or wait ten years before I can start anything. I can't find people who have actually graduated from Fielding to ask these questions. I've messaged a few people on linkedin but havent heard back. Please say someone here has earned their PhD in clinical psyc from fielding. Click to expand...

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Science-based answers for questions about the mind, behavior and perception. This is not a mental health/advice sub! Non-Science-based answers may be removed without notice.

Is getting a PHD even worth it?

I’m an undergrad psych student pondering their future and I’m debating whether or not I should go for a clinical psych PHD. While I do enjoy research, my end goal really is to practice (I want to work as a clinician in a correctional setting). From what I’ve heard, most LPCCs have pretty poor job options and are paid much less than PHDs, which is my rationale for getting one. Is this even correct, Or is my judgement misguided?

Edit: I’m American

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PhD Program

The PhD is conferred upon candidates who have demonstrated substantial scholarship and the ability to conduct independent research and analysis in Psychology.

A student typically concentrates in one of several areas within Psychology. Across all areas, the training program emphasizes the development of research competence, and students are encouraged to develop skills and attitudes that are appropriate to a career of continuing research productivity.

Two kinds of experience are necessary for this purpose. One is the learning of substantial amounts of theoretical, empirical, computational and methods information . A number of courses and seminars are provided to assist in this learning, and students are expected to construct a program in consultation with their advisor(s) to obtain this knowledge in the most stimulating and economical fashion.

A second aspect of training is one that cannot be gained from the courses or seminars. This is first-hand knowledge of, and practical experience with, the methods of psychological investigation and study . Therefore, students are expected to spend half of their time on research and to take no more than 10 units of course work per quarter, beginning in the first quarter.

Students achieve competence in unique ways and at different rates. Students and advisors work together to plan a program to accomplish these objectives.

If current students have any questions about the PhD program, please email the Student Services Manager, Dena Zlatunich, at  denamz [at] stanford.edu (denamz[at]stanford[dot]edu) . The current Director of Graduate Studies is Professor Hyo Gwoen.

If you are interested in applying for our PhD program, please carefully review the information on the  PhD Admissions website . Follow-up questions can be directed to the admissions staff at  psych-admissions [at] stanford.edu (psych-admissions[at]stanford[dot]edu) .